Eve-online/Thinking about joining a corp?/How to find the corp that is right for you - Version 2.0 - Part 1
By: NightCrawler 85 Phoibe Enterprises
How to find the corp that is right for you
- 1 - 2013-06-07 21:09:37 UTC | Edited by: NightCrawler 85
56 One of the most frequent questions I see on the Eve forums is "How do you know if a corporation is good or not?" To help each person come to their own answer, I have written a "step by step guide" on how you can make your search for the right corporation ("corp") easier. Ideally this will help you avoid a long employment history filled with corps you joined and left because you only found out that they didn't "fit" you after you joined them.
I will be the first to admit that I do not have much first hand experience when it comes to actually finding and then joining a corp since I have been fortunate enough to have been in the same corp since day one. Instead, my experience comes from over seven years as the head of recruitment for my corp. I have spent hours and hours talking to recruits, hearing their stories and struggles in finding what is "just right" for them.
Below you will find the guide, written by myself and with comments from other recruiters, CEOs, new players and of course grumpy old vets like my self who has nothing better to do then post on the forums all day Blink
How do I find a corp?
There are several ways to find a corp. Some rely on pure luck and some rely on you seeking out the right people.
1. The recruitment channel. Personally I avoid the recruitment channel like the plague. It's very good for newer corps but its also very messy, can be plagued with smacktalk and pointless chatter and tends to be filled with "spammy" advertisements.
Here is my advice on how to handle this channel. First off "block" anyone who spams their ads several times in a row or within a short amount of time. Instead, look for people who are sitting small chatting. Don't be afraid to join in on the conversation they are having.
Second, think carefully before "advertising" yourself. You're asking to get spammed with convo invites, possibly from people who aren't a good fit for you. More on that later.
2. The forums. This is the one I prefer to use. You will still have to spend hours reading through posts that seem the same, but you will soon learn to read between the lines. Is it written in a humorous way? Does it look careless? Does it sound too good to be true? (If the last one occurs that's most likely the case!) You can "bump" your own post several times during the next couple of days (just remember to follow the forum rules) so as many recruiters as possible can see it.
Try to include something about yourself to make your post more personal. I am not saying go all out like "I like to read Harry Potter and i have a collie named Lassie" just to make that clear. But don't make it to shallow either.
For instance, let's take "2 mill SP Caldari pilot, looking for low sec or 0.0, post here" ... An ad like that makes me (personally) just close the thread and move on.
Now lets try to ad in something that tells the recruiter more about the person.
"I am a 2 mill SP Caldari player. I'm interested in exploring low sec or potentially 0.0 but i would appreciate some guidance since I am still new. I am however capable of doing my own research, I just want to know that if I have a question, someone will try to help me if they can. I'm in my mid-20s have plenty of time to play due to working from home so I have no problem meeting any requirements regarding online time and operations. Thank you for your interest"
This is the kind of attitude I would be looking for in an ad and this would get a reply from me, even if i am fairly sure he would not be interested, but he deserved a free bump and that will help him out.
Due to space restrictions more about this covered under more side tips.
3. Engaging in PvP and the dreaded "Losing Your First Ship". Believe it or not but even if someone just blew up your ship it does not mean that they are a bad person. Start off by looking at their corp info and then do a Google search to see if you can find their recruitment ads, posts they have made on the forums, or even their killboard. If it looks like something you could be interested in, contact the person who blew up your ship. Make it clear that you are not looking to whine but explain to him that you are new and that you are interested in learning the game.
In some cases you will be asked to come back when you have more skillpoints (SP) or time in-game, or you will just get laughed at and convo closed, but in some cases you might end up finding a really good corp this way.
Please note that even if a corp has a minimum SP requirement it does not mean you will get turned down. Make a good impression on them and they might give you a chance to prove your self.
4. See that random person mining in a belt, talking in local, in a wormhole or even just flying a cool looking ship? Follow the steps listed above. Find information about them,then contact their official recruiter or CEO if their corp description sounds interesting to you.
5. The in-game recruitment tool. (Thanks goes to Mocam for reminding me about this) The in-game recruitment tool can be very handy once you have a pretty good idea what you are looking for. It will allow you to specify things like what timezone you are active, what you are looking to do in the game, preferred language, play style and a bunch of nice options. You can then search and find corporations that meet your criteria.
However, there there is no verification of activities advertised by a corp, meaning a corp's recruiter can put activities in the ad that sound good or that they wished they did but don't actually do. So please keep in mind that like with all other recruitment tools, its not always accurate and you need to do proper research to find out if you are being mislead.
6. Join the channel "unemployment", and be sure to read the MOTD! (thanks goes to Woeful Animation)
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I have found a corp that sounds promising - what do I do?
- 2 - 2013-06-07 21:09:47 UTC | Edited by: NightCrawler 85
29 I have found a corp that sounds promising - what do I do?
1. Be honest. If a recruiter asks you what you want to do in the game, don't be ashamed to tell them that you don't know yet. Most older Eve players do understand that it takes you a long time just to understand how much you can do in the game, and that when you start to get an idea you often change your path several times.
2. Show your personality and expect to see theirs. The recruiter(s) normally reflect the personality you will find from the general corp members. If you have a recruiter that does their best to talk to you, try to actually get to know you and has a sense of humor, there is a big chance that the rest of the corp members have the same attitude. (There is always exceptions of course)
If the recruiter(s) appears careless and just asks the basic questions like "What do you fly? When can you be online?" and so on its a good chance that you will find your self in a large corp, but not a corp with a good social atmosphere. (Again there are always exceptions)
This however is something that depends highly on what you are looking for. Some people prefer to have corps where you feel close to other people, some don't really care that much.
3. Look at the age of the corp (based on when the corp was founded). If it's a brand new corp there is a high chance that it will be gone within a month or two... but don't just say no to any recruiter who comes from a young corp. Listen to them, see if they have a clue about what they are doing (I realize that as a new player you won't know what running a corp in Eve involves, but look for current activity, plans and leadership involvement).
With an old corp you might run into the issue of not feeling as a part of the group. In this case just be patient. Give them time to get to know you and trust you. Remember that Eve players, especially the older ones, are mostly so paranoid that they would not let their own grandmother into their corp Lol It's not personal, give it time and you will eventually be glaring at the new guy as well.
4. Forums. So many people hate reading corp forums but if a corp has a forum its a good indication that they are active and willing to keep open discussions regarding corp issues.
5. Member count. A corp's member count can be over 100 members but how do you know that all those people are active? Ask the recruiter whether or not inactive players are removed from the corp and if so how often. Killboards might give you a good idea of active members when your looking at a PVP corp but if you're looking for an "all around corp" or a carebear corp this is not an accurate place to look.
Side note about killboards (thanks goes to Anshio Tamark for mentioning this). No matter what kind of corp you are looking to join, the killboard is something you should take a look at. If someone claims to be a PVP corp you should expect to see some kills (and losses of course). If you are looking to join an industry corp you should hopefully not see too many losses but if its page after page with industrial ships being lost in empire to the same groups there is a chance that corp (or alliance) finds them self being war decced on a regular basis, possibly hinting at little structure and leadership in the corp. There will always be some losses, but compare different killboards and corporations and you will be able to tell the more extreme cases.
Side note about EVE Who (thanks goes to Ace Menda). EVE Who allows you to search for a corp or alliance and see how many members they have, comments people have made about their corp, who their members are, who left and so on. Due to character limit i will expand on this under the more side tips section.
6. If you are homosexual, deaf/mute, speak English as your second language or similar ask the recruiter how the corp feels about it. You do not want to place yourself in a situation where you feel uncomfortable or unfairly treated because of your situation being different. Most people will not have any issues with these situations, but for instance deafness may lead to issues finding a serious PVP corp due to the high requirements for voice.
Side note (thanks goes to J'Poll). A lot of corporations with have requirements for voice chat use, but in most cases you only need to be able to listen, not talk. Just make sure that the recruiter know that you are not in a position to talk (some might ask for the reason, some won't) and explain that you can still listen in so you can follow commands when needed. Let your comfort level guide you in this conversation.
7. Ask if they have a public channel and ask if it's okay that you hang around there for a couple of days. Don't be surprised if there are few people talking in it (many members of corps stick to their corp chats) but this will give you a good idea about how many active members they have at particular times, and how their relations are with other corps and former members. If people leave on good terms its normally a good indication that nothing drastic happened.
8. Do not join the first corp that is willing to accept you! Talk around and look at other options as well. Recruits are always in high demand so you will have options. A good recruiter will understand and remain available to you during your search.
9. Think of recruiters as akin to telemarketers. It's our job to sell the corp to you and many will straight out lie to get a recruit, any recruit. Take your time with the recruiter and potentially the members of the corp, and remember to be patient.
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What to avoid.
#3 - 2013-06-07 21:10:11 UTC | Edited by: NightCrawler 85
1. Payment for a membership (Thanks goes to Skyly for adding this.) There are some corps and alliances out there that will request certain things in order for you to join. The most common example of items asked for is ISK. I will not say to never do this, since I'm sure there are corps/alliances out there that are genuine, but personally I would strongly advise against this. If a corp/alliance asks you to transfer them any ISK or assets before joining, look them up and do proper research.
If a recruiter asks you to transfer your assets to them right after joining their corp/alliance, please be very cautious and be aware of the fact that nothing prevents them from simply keeping the assets after you hand them over.
2. Asking for ISK or similar yourself. This is just me personally, but if a recruit comes to me and asks "How much do I get upon joining?" "How much do you pay?" or "I will join if you give me a PLEX every month" (the last one has occurred on more then one occasion) I will turn them down unless they made a really really good impression beforehand.
Instead ask about things like "How is ore divided after a mining operation?" or "Do you have a ship replacement program?". Basically don't come across as begging or that the potential ISK you can make is your prime objective when considering a corp.
3. First impression. If there is one thing that rubs me the wrong way it's when a recruit contacts me, skips the hello and just says "I want to join, what do you need from me". This shows me that the recruit really does not care that much and is just looking for any corp. Please remember that even recruiters like it when you at least ask "How are you?" and show that they are interested in getting to know both the recruiter and the corp.
4. Check their killboard and see if there are a lot of kills involving corp members killing other corp members. In some cases this is related to events (like duels or tournaments) or simply corp members playing around, but some corporations will accept you just to blow you up for fun.
5. Recruiters that are not members of the corp they are recruiting for. (Thanks goes to Arch Ville) Just like with paying ISK, or handing over your assets you will want to consider this carefully. There are corps out there that recruit for a different corp (trial corporations as an example, which is a corp were you can prove your self before your accepted into the main corporation). In these cases you will want to make sure you do research on both the corp the recruiter asks you to join, and the recruiters corp, and obviously the recruiter. If at all possible talk to members from both corporations and get confirmation that this is their usual recruitment procedure.
6. Today only! Last chance to take us up on this wonderful offer! (Thanks goes to Captain Meric) Don't let a recruiter make you feel pressured into joining by telling you that its now or never. Sometimes recruiters will close down recruitment for a while for various reasons (war decs, holiday breaks, letting the current members settle and so on), and in these cases the recruiters will usually be able to give you a rough time limit on when the recruitment will be open again. If they cant chances are that they are just trying to pressure you to join, and if they do you can hang around in their public channel until recruitment is open again, or look for a different corporation to join.
More side tips.
1. Participate in their operations and talk to them on voice. (Thanks goes to Rath Kelbore for this tip.)
This one is noted as a side tip since some corps will not give away their voice server information to complete strangers. But yes, voice can be a very good way to get a real impression on how someone acts since they don't get a chance to type. reread, and edit like you can using text only. Operations are similar, but also depend on where the corp/alliance is located and what activity they're doing. Most empire corporations would likely be fine with you joining an operation or two, but for a 0.0 corp/alliance you will have difficulties getting there (unless the corp/alliance and friends are willing to set you blue).
2. Remember that joining a corporation in EVE is very different then other online games. Here your actions have consequences, and your corp history will follow you. Forever Twisted
3. If the recruiter uses abbreviations or "lingo" that you don't understand, ask for clarification. If the recruiter says "we're NBSI in WHs and NRDS in LS" and that means nothing to you, explain that you want to be sure you understand what they're saying. A good starting point for abbreviations would be here but research abbreviations that are unfamiliar to you with your favorite search engine. (Thanks goes to Zendane for this tip)
4. API keys. You might find a corp that asks you to submit an API key. This is completely safe! Your API key will not give them access to your login details or similar but corporations can use the key to see if you have done something they find "suspicious". Different corps will ask you to include different information with your API key, so again it all depends on how much information you are comfortable giving them.
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More side tips.
5. Referrals. In some cases you might find your self in a position were you get turned down by the recruiters for one reason or another. In some cases its because the corp simply can not provide what you are looking for. In these cases you can politely ask the recruiter if they can suggest a corp/alliance that might be a better fit for you. Especially with older corps you will find that they have a large network, and it is possible they know a like minded corp that would be a better fit for you.
Side note; If you get turned down, please remain polite to the recruiter and the members. If you start whining and arguing about their decision some might be less willing to help you and refer you to another corp.
6. EVE Who. When you look up a corp on EVE Who you can click on "Leave history". This will show you what member left and when. If you see that 10-15 people left at the same day, close to the same time this can mean one of 4 things. A) The corp just purged inactive members. B) The corp had a massive argument and a part of the corp split up because of it. C) A part of the corp split up for other reasons that has nothing to do with internal drama. D) The corp is disbanding, or on the verge of disbanding. If you see something like this, and you are in doubt if the recruiter is telling you the truth try to contact the members who recently left. If you send them mails, add them to your watch list and they never log on/respond its a good chance that A) is the reason for the sudden drop in members. Also please keep in mind that no corp is perfect for everyone. Sometimes people will just leave for reasons that are completely unrelated to their feelings about the corp it self. So please don't think that any corp who has a "leave history" with more then 5 members on it is "bad", it simply means that the corp did not feel right for someone Smile
7. Eve-Skunk (Thank you goes to "anonymous") This site allows you to see the standings and alliance mails. You wont be able to find all the alliances here, but check it on the off chance that they are listed. Looking trough the corp/alliance mails can give you an idea of activity, member count, willingness to communicate, operations and similar. But please keep in mind that even if an alliance has few mails it might just mean that they do everything over corp forums, so don't disregard a corp based on this alone.
8. More on writing your ad. (Thank you goes to Dyvim Slorm) When writing your advert you should include the very basic information like what timezone you are in, and area's you prefer to avoid/operate in. It could also be a good idea to include professions you don't want to be affiliated with (as an example some don't want to be in a corp with "pirates", and some don't want to be in a corp with "carebears").
9. Activity (Thanks goes to Dywim Slorm) To get an idea of activity you can either add corp members to your watchlist, or you can set the corp to +5 so they are easy to spot in local. Look up their members on EVE Who and use a locator agent to find the areas they operate (look up more then one member, not everyone will be in the same area).
- Please note that killboards will also give you an idea of activity, especially when looking at a PVP oriented corporation (thanks goes to "anonymous")
10. Fleet doctorine. (Thanks goes to Captain Meric) In some cases you might already know what ship(s) you prefer/want to fly, and in some cases this may simply not be a viable option in the corporation your looking at joining. Ask the recruiters if they have any special requirements regarding what ships you can and can not use while participating in fleets and or/solo roams. This especially goes for corporations in 0.0, WH corporations and PVP corporations.
Special notes
1. Advance within the corporation. (Thanks goes to Captain Meric) Once you have found a corporation you enjoy being a member off, and you think you will stay with for a while, you may find that you evolve a desire to either advance in rank, or just help out. Every corporation loves recruiters, because recruitment is (for many) one of the worst jobs you can possibly have in EVE, thus there is often available spots that needs to be filled within your corporation. But some enjoy it, and have a gift for it, so if you think this is something you might enjoy doing and your serious about it talk to the head recruiter and offer to help out. Maybe it will lead to more leadership roles, or maybe you will find your self not wanting more responsibility, but if nothing else its good to have this kind of experience to point back at if you end up having to look for a new corp down the line. And believe me, most recruiters love anyone who is willing to offer any assistance Lol
Conclusion
I'm sure there are many others I should thank in this post, and I'm sure more will be added as time goes on. But in the meantime I hope this post will be useful to you and save you some time and frustration when you feel ready to join your first corp.
The last thing I will add is this... Be patient! I cannot stress this enough. There are corps out there that will fit your play style, and you might have to go through dozens of interviews to find them. Be persistent, take your time and always do proper research!
Good luck with your corp hunt!Big smile
Regards, NightCrawler
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